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	<title>Comments on: When to Put Pot on the Ballot: 2014 or 2016?</title>
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	<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/</link>
	<description>Legalize marijuana</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 14 Jun 2013 23:09:52 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: BooRadley</title>
		<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/#comment-7018</link>
		<dc:creator>BooRadley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2013 06:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/?p=3844#comment-7018</guid>
		<description>Nice sermon.

I guess what you meant is that you&#039;ve never been a part of the hard work of any campaign that&#039;s actually accomplished something. 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2012/04/27/the-smoke-and-mirrors-of-the-legalization-debate/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Legalization is not about a subculture, it is about market protection for Big Pharma, and the protection of labor sources for the Prison-Industrial-Complex.&lt;/a&gt;

Please apologize to Jon and all libs and progressives who actually understand the real world obstacles.

For your penance, I suggest $20 to FDL and $20 more JustSayNow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice sermon.</p>
<p>I guess what you meant is that you&#8217;ve never been a part of the hard work of any campaign that&#8217;s actually accomplished something. </p>
<p><a href="http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2012/04/27/the-smoke-and-mirrors-of-the-legalization-debate/" rel="nofollow"> Legalization is not about a subculture, it is about market protection for Big Pharma, and the protection of labor sources for the Prison-Industrial-Complex.</a></p>
<p>Please apologize to Jon and all libs and progressives who actually understand the real world obstacles.</p>
<p>For your penance, I suggest $20 to FDL and $20 more JustSayNow.</p>
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		<title>By: nixonclinbushbama</title>
		<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/#comment-7017</link>
		<dc:creator>nixonclinbushbama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2013 05:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/?p=3844#comment-7017</guid>
		<description>Very true.  The D of J, apparently having nothing better to do, raided medical marijuana dispensaries during Obama&#039;s first term, even though they were perfectly legal in California. 

During the campaign, Obama said marijuana was not his priority, but, for excellent reason, I don&#039;t really trust President Obama to execute Campaign Obama&#039;s promises.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very true.  The D of J, apparently having nothing better to do, raided medical marijuana dispensaries during Obama&#8217;s first term, even though they were perfectly legal in California. </p>
<p>During the campaign, Obama said marijuana was not his priority, but, for excellent reason, I don&#8217;t really trust President Obama to execute Campaign Obama&#8217;s promises.</p>
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		<title>By: mulp</title>
		<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/#comment-7016</link>
		<dc:creator>mulp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2013 00:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/?p=3844#comment-7016</guid>
		<description>This question demonstrates why liberals and progressives lose so often.

No commitment.

If you believe in something, you will work on that issue year after year after year until you are dead or you have accomplished what you believe in.

If you pick 2016, what are you going to do in 2013 and 2014?  Try to raise money from people who are not committed to the cause, but are rich enough to contribute $20?

If people are committed, you can get them working on it for 2014.  If it does not pass in 2014, then your restart for 2016.  And if not then, then go for 2018.

If you want to be effective like the conservatives seeking to kill Social Security, Medicare, abortion rights, you never never stop working no matter how many times you lose.

Hey, work on a campaign where you hand out flyers of Obama painted like Hitler saying &quot;Obama is going to put your kid in jail for life for one joint&quot; and make a libertarian anti-jack boot big government, anti-Obama issue out of it in the most conservative redneck South.  For farmers tout the profits to be made from growing hemp for hemp oil, for hemp fabrics, and so on, and hit hard at jack boot government agents.  For the wealthier conservatives, hit them with the high cost of drug police, drug courts, and prisons which drive up taxes or starve fixing the roads.

Legalizing pot/hemp is not a liberal or progressive or even conservative issue, but an issue that should cross all political boundaries.

The anti-abortion movement has never stopped and has reframed the issue so it crosses all political lines as far as the People are concerned, thanks in part to clever rhetoric.  The pro-life elimination of choice by women is described as choosing life - Palin made a point of saying she was pro-life because she was pro-choice in choosing to have a Downs child.  She, she was exercising power by choosing, so that is why she wants to take away choice, based on her superior moral behavior.  The pro-life movement has created a political view where abortion is opposed by the majority, but Roe v Wade is supported by 70%, leading to candidates winning for being with the majority, opposed to abortion.  Meanwhile, they defeat opponents who support Roe just as 70% of the voters do.  It is in this grass roots movement in the face of passive women&#039;s right advocates that abortion is under attack.

A grass roots and continuous legalize hemp/pot movement would face astroturf opposition raising the old 50s era anti-pot gateway drug fears, but it is hard to imagine any grass roots campaign in support of any drug laws and the money will run out for pot when money is being funneled to anti-Obama, anti-immigrant, anti-Obamacare, anti-gay marriage, anti-green energy campaigns.

Note that the Keystone XL pipeline protests were over property rights as in the Kelo lawsuit that was driven by conservative-libertarian opposition to big government.  When Keystone was turned into a green issue for fighting climate change, all of a sudden the libertarians and conservatives were immediately in favor of Gov Perry running landowners off their land so Canadian corporations could take Texas land for Canadian profits.

Lesson: do not make legal pot liberal or conservative or Democratic or Republican, but simply pro-liberty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This question demonstrates why liberals and progressives lose so often.</p>
<p>No commitment.</p>
<p>If you believe in something, you will work on that issue year after year after year until you are dead or you have accomplished what you believe in.</p>
<p>If you pick 2016, what are you going to do in 2013 and 2014?  Try to raise money from people who are not committed to the cause, but are rich enough to contribute $20?</p>
<p>If people are committed, you can get them working on it for 2014.  If it does not pass in 2014, then your restart for 2016.  And if not then, then go for 2018.</p>
<p>If you want to be effective like the conservatives seeking to kill Social Security, Medicare, abortion rights, you never never stop working no matter how many times you lose.</p>
<p>Hey, work on a campaign where you hand out flyers of Obama painted like Hitler saying &#8220;Obama is going to put your kid in jail for life for one joint&#8221; and make a libertarian anti-jack boot big government, anti-Obama issue out of it in the most conservative redneck South.  For farmers tout the profits to be made from growing hemp for hemp oil, for hemp fabrics, and so on, and hit hard at jack boot government agents.  For the wealthier conservatives, hit them with the high cost of drug police, drug courts, and prisons which drive up taxes or starve fixing the roads.</p>
<p>Legalizing pot/hemp is not a liberal or progressive or even conservative issue, but an issue that should cross all political boundaries.</p>
<p>The anti-abortion movement has never stopped and has reframed the issue so it crosses all political lines as far as the People are concerned, thanks in part to clever rhetoric.  The pro-life elimination of choice by women is described as choosing life &#8211; Palin made a point of saying she was pro-life because she was pro-choice in choosing to have a Downs child.  She, she was exercising power by choosing, so that is why she wants to take away choice, based on her superior moral behavior.  The pro-life movement has created a political view where abortion is opposed by the majority, but Roe v Wade is supported by 70%, leading to candidates winning for being with the majority, opposed to abortion.  Meanwhile, they defeat opponents who support Roe just as 70% of the voters do.  It is in this grass roots movement in the face of passive women&#8217;s right advocates that abortion is under attack.</p>
<p>A grass roots and continuous legalize hemp/pot movement would face astroturf opposition raising the old 50s era anti-pot gateway drug fears, but it is hard to imagine any grass roots campaign in support of any drug laws and the money will run out for pot when money is being funneled to anti-Obama, anti-immigrant, anti-Obamacare, anti-gay marriage, anti-green energy campaigns.</p>
<p>Note that the Keystone XL pipeline protests were over property rights as in the Kelo lawsuit that was driven by conservative-libertarian opposition to big government.  When Keystone was turned into a green issue for fighting climate change, all of a sudden the libertarians and conservatives were immediately in favor of Gov Perry running landowners off their land so Canadian corporations could take Texas land for Canadian profits.</p>
<p>Lesson: do not make legal pot liberal or conservative or Democratic or Republican, but simply pro-liberty.</p>
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		<title>By: gannonguckert</title>
		<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/#comment-7015</link>
		<dc:creator>gannonguckert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/?p=3844#comment-7015</guid>
		<description>Slightly off-topic, but I haven&#039;t seen any coverage around here of the unbelievable prison sentence imposed last week on the Oakland, CA, dispensary operator whose name I believe is Joshua Hester.

He was led out of the courtroom in handcuffs to begin an eight year sentence for operating two very modest dispensaries.  Eight years!

I believe I saw one article, probably in the SF Chronicle, and nothing in the blogosphere.  Whuzzup w/dat?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slightly off-topic, but I haven&#8217;t seen any coverage around here of the unbelievable prison sentence imposed last week on the Oakland, CA, dispensary operator whose name I believe is Joshua Hester.</p>
<p>He was led out of the courtroom in handcuffs to begin an eight year sentence for operating two very modest dispensaries.  Eight years!</p>
<p>I believe I saw one article, probably in the SF Chronicle, and nothing in the blogosphere.  Whuzzup w/dat?</p>
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		<title>By: maa8722</title>
		<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/#comment-7014</link>
		<dc:creator>maa8722</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/?p=3844#comment-7014</guid>
		<description>2014!

No telling who will be in charge in 2016.  MJ is gaining acceptance, sure, and it&#039;s an ongoing process.  Nonetheless, people vote on a lot of issues -- how many of them will be single issue MJ voters by 2016?  Hard to say.

I&#039;s suggest 2014 is a better bet since we can reckon ahead better over two years than four.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2014!</p>
<p>No telling who will be in charge in 2016.  MJ is gaining acceptance, sure, and it&#8217;s an ongoing process.  Nonetheless, people vote on a lot of issues &#8212; how many of them will be single issue MJ voters by 2016?  Hard to say.</p>
<p>I&#8217;s suggest 2014 is a better bet since we can reckon ahead better over two years than four.</p>
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		<title>By: BooRadley</title>
		<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/#comment-7013</link>
		<dc:creator>BooRadley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/?p=3844#comment-7013</guid>
		<description>Jon, excellent post, a measured, clear-eyed, look at the tough questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, excellent post, a measured, clear-eyed, look at the tough questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Natty Rebel</title>
		<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/#comment-7012</link>
		<dc:creator>Natty Rebel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/?p=3844#comment-7012</guid>
		<description>You need to work on the Grandmothers. My mom (70) voted for the Montana Medical MJ initiatives b/c she thought it was unfair that a plant with zero casualties is worth criminalizing while alcohol kills so many drunken farmers who come to town to go to the bar and then kill them or themselves on the return trip.
Of course I had to tell her the benign 80000 year history of Cannabis over a nice glass of wine on the back porch. Before my discussion she likened MJ to heroin.

AT her age she has had friends with the sorts of cancer and joint (Ha hha) issues that plague people at her age and she thought taking a plant made more sense then the pharmaceutical route with the cost and side effects.

I think all MJ spokespeople should be nice grandma types instead of some young white guy with dreadlocks and a Bob Marley tattoo. 

In &#039;68 they had &quot;Go Clean for Gene&quot; (Eugene McCarthy vs LBJ). IN this case &quot;Go Clean for Green&quot;

I definitely think 2016 is the way to go, more youthful and minority voters come out. 2014 might be right in Obama&#039;Holder&#039;s wheel house of the big crack down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need to work on the Grandmothers. My mom (70) voted for the Montana Medical MJ initiatives b/c she thought it was unfair that a plant with zero casualties is worth criminalizing while alcohol kills so many drunken farmers who come to town to go to the bar and then kill them or themselves on the return trip.<br />
Of course I had to tell her the benign 80000 year history of Cannabis over a nice glass of wine on the back porch. Before my discussion she likened MJ to heroin.</p>
<p>AT her age she has had friends with the sorts of cancer and joint (Ha hha) issues that plague people at her age and she thought taking a plant made more sense then the pharmaceutical route with the cost and side effects.</p>
<p>I think all MJ spokespeople should be nice grandma types instead of some young white guy with dreadlocks and a Bob Marley tattoo. </p>
<p>In &#8217;68 they had &#8220;Go Clean for Gene&#8221; (Eugene McCarthy vs LBJ). IN this case &#8220;Go Clean for Green&#8221;</p>
<p>I definitely think 2016 is the way to go, more youthful and minority voters come out. 2014 might be right in Obama&#8217;Holder&#8217;s wheel house of the big crack down.</p>
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		<title>By: geraldo</title>
		<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/#comment-7011</link>
		<dc:creator>geraldo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/?p=3844#comment-7011</guid>
		<description>The &quot;premature loss&quot; canard was concern-trolled about same-sex marriage too, and it didn&#039;t seem to slow down society&#039;s evolution on that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;premature loss&#8221; canard was concern-trolled about same-sex marriage too, and it didn&#8217;t seem to slow down society&#8217;s evolution on that.</p>
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		<title>By: Evelyn</title>
		<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/#comment-7010</link>
		<dc:creator>Evelyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/?p=3844#comment-7010</guid>
		<description>Good point. The feds are the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point. The feds are the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: TarheelDem</title>
		<link>http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/31/when-to-put-pot-on-the-ballot-2014-or-2016/#comment-7009</link>
		<dc:creator>TarheelDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/?p=3844#comment-7009</guid>
		<description>What you say is true.  But having folks realize it is true means at least in places like North Carolina clearing the underbrush of all that ninety-year-old disinformation campaign.  It shouldn&#039;t lead to a wide-ranging discussion but if you are talking trying to convince people, it inevitably does.  Just bracketing any putative medical effects as medical issues does unblock opposition to legalization.

It has nothing to do with the Gateway Theory.  Most folks have had enough folks in their families do pot now that there is very little talk of Gateway drugs (except as snark) but there are folks whose pot use was also associated with other issues and those get conflated in peoples&#039; minds.  But if it&#039;s a medical issue, it&#039;s a doctor-patient issue and not a public issue except for the provision health care.  The tag line &quot;It&#039;s a health care issue not a criminal issue&quot; gets nods.  Field tested with a random, but not necessarily statistically valid sample.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you say is true.  But having folks realize it is true means at least in places like North Carolina clearing the underbrush of all that ninety-year-old disinformation campaign.  It shouldn&#8217;t lead to a wide-ranging discussion but if you are talking trying to convince people, it inevitably does.  Just bracketing any putative medical effects as medical issues does unblock opposition to legalization.</p>
<p>It has nothing to do with the Gateway Theory.  Most folks have had enough folks in their families do pot now that there is very little talk of Gateway drugs (except as snark) but there are folks whose pot use was also associated with other issues and those get conflated in peoples&#8217; minds.  But if it&#8217;s a medical issue, it&#8217;s a doctor-patient issue and not a public issue except for the provision health care.  The tag line &#8220;It&#8217;s a health care issue not a criminal issue&#8221; gets nods.  Field tested with a random, but not necessarily statistically valid sample.</p>
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